Heather Zollinger (Agent Professor)

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Debe Maxwell, CRS
www.AtHomesCharlotte.com | The Maxwell House Group | RE/MAX Executive | (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
Charlotte Homes for Sale - Charlotte Neighborhoods

That shouldn't happen with the Federal guidelines where a Closing Disclosure has to be presented 3 days prior to Closing. I'd hire an attorney for the buyer but, I would think this would fall on the lender.

Oct 04, 2017 05:05 PM
Rainmaker
511,965
Richard Bazinet /MBA, CRS, ABR
AZuRE Team - Realty ONE Group - Scottsdale, AZ
Phoenix Scottsdale Real Estate

Let me see... that does not sound right. Underwriter and the broker knew about the change? That is simply not possible. Something is fishy with your question. The lender does not even do the recording...

 

Oct 04, 2017 08:49 PM
Rainmaker
3,812,222
Barbara Todaro
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Franklin, MA
"Franklin MA Homes"

this is another reason every client we have has their own legal representation at closing.... if the recording had not taken place, why did the buyer have the keys and permission to occupy????????????  

attorney is needed....

Oct 04, 2017 04:59 PM
Rainmaker
411,311
Dave Halpern
Keller Williams Realty Louisville East (502) 664-7827 - Louisville, KY
Louisville Short Sale Expert

What about the three day closing disclosure period? Was the CD issued? Are the changes within the allowed variance?

Oct 04, 2017 04:50 PM
Rainmaker
1,966,287
Nina Hollander
RE/MAX Executive | Charlotte, NC - Charlotte, NC
Your Charlotte/Waxhaw/Fort Mill Area Realtor

This doesn't sound "kosher" to me. Buyer has the legal right to see a closing disclosure three business days prior to closing to address these kinds of issues. Sounds like the buyer needs an attorney. Not sure how the broker knew of this change before the buyer.

Oct 04, 2017 10:22 PM
Rainmaker
2,687,032
Michael Jacobs
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Pasadena, CA
Los Angeles Pasadena Area Real Estate 818.516.4393

Based on the information you have provided there's more than a few missing pieces in this scenario. 

Oct 04, 2017 08:14 PM
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Fred Griffin
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

 What was on the CD?

Who gave them the keys before closing?

Oct 04, 2017 06:57 PM
Rainmaker
549,302
Kasey & John Boles
Jon Gosche Real Estate, LLC - BoiseMeridianRealEstate.com - Boise, ID
Boise & Meridian, ID Ada/Canyon/Gem/Boise Counties

What Jeff Dowler said. I don't understand how they got keys and moved in if it wasn't truly closed.  Also, the closing disclosure issue, etc.  How did they sign docs and not know about the change including the $2500 owed? That would be on the CD & settlement statement. I am a little confused at the details. -Kasey

Oct 04, 2017 06:25 PM
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Jeff Dowler
Solutions Real Estate - Carlsbad, CA
The Southern California Relocation Dude - Carlsbad

I would think this is on the lender, and an attorny might be needed. As Debe Maxwell, CRS  points out I wonder hiw this could happen when a closing disclosure is required 3 days before closing that lays out all the fees, etc. And there should be no keys exchanged until the transaction is recorded to be safe.

Oct 04, 2017 05:59 PM
Rainmaker
2,458,132
Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers
Haven Express @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty - Scottsdale, AZ
Serving Scottsdale, Phoenix and Maricopa County AZ

Richard Bazinet /MBA, CRS, ABR nailed this one!

Oct 05, 2017 05:24 AM
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Tammy Lankford,
Lane Realty Eatonton, GA Lake Sinclair, Milledgeville, 706-485-9668 - Eatonton, GA
Broker GA Lake Sinclair/Eatonton/Milledgeville

this didn't happen.  At least not recently.  

Oct 04, 2017 09:18 PM
Rainmaker
284,777
Jim Cheney
Saint Francis Property Santa Rosa, CA - Santa Rosa, CA
Rincon Valley Realtor 707.494.1055

Sounds like the broker's problem.  Shady I'd threaten to report them to your state licensing bureau, and threaten them with a small claims action if they don't honor whatever paperwork the buyer already signed.  If they already have the keys I guess they get to move in and let the lender or seller evict them.  What a mess...

Oct 04, 2017 07:37 PM
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Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, Keller Williams fox cities - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

I am sure there will be a judge who will know the answer to this one.

 

Oct 04, 2017 06:49 PM
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Debbie Reynolds
Platinum Properties - Clarksville, TN
Your Dedicated Clarksville TN Real Estate Agent

I don't know how that can happen with the 3 days disclosure rule and TRID. It sounds like a RESPA violation.

Oct 04, 2017 06:10 PM
Rainmaker
476,173
Candice A. Donofrio
Next Wave RE Investments LLC Bullhead City AZ Commercial RE Broker - Fort Mohave, AZ
928-201-4BHC (4242) call/text

What a great question. And what a terrible situation. The underwriter and the broker both knew that an additional $2,500 was going to be required of the buyer and the broker gave the buyer keys? Holy moly. We don't release keys until the property records. Whoever handed over those keys to that buyer should be in a world of hurtin' right about now.

Oct 04, 2017 05:19 PM
Rainmaker
3,279,626
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding and Marketing

You need an attorney.  In my world, both the underwriter and the broker are responsible.  A

Oct 04, 2017 05:02 PM
Rainmaker
4,108,828
Roy Kelley
Realty Group Referrals - Gaithersburg, MD
Roy and Dolores Kelley Photographs

That is a matter between the borrower and the mortgage lender.

 

Oct 04, 2017 04:38 PM
Ambassador
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John Meussner
Mason-McDuffie Mortgage, Conventional Loans, Jumbo Loans, FHA, 203(k), USDA, VA, - Walnut Creek, CA
#MortgageMadeEasy Walnut Creek, CA 484-680-4852

It depends if the loan is a "qualified mortgage".  If it's covered under recent regulations, it's just about impossible for this to happen with disclosure requirements.

Material changes like an increase to rate require re-disclosure to the buyer, they need to acknowledge a new loan estimate was received before the closing disclosure would be sent - both LE and CD would have the increased rate on there.  

You'd have to have an incredibly sloppy lender, mortgage broker, and title company handling the transaction for something like this to occur. Or else the lender is simply out of compliance re: disclosures, and it'd be cheaper for them to eat the $2500 than it would be for a regulator to find out that they chased the buyer down for it.

Oct 05, 2017 08:51 AM
Rainer
37,183
Joe D'Agostino
NMLS# 729950 - Manahawkin, NJ
Mortgage Officer 46 years!

Lender cannot change the rate without sending notice to borrower. Something is missing here! If the borrower was "floating" the rate, then the change could have been made. No lender can change the rate after the mortgage closed...I never in my 48 years heard of this. Like I said,there is something not quite accurate.

Oct 05, 2017 07:14 AM
Rainmaker
270,101
Anthony Acosta - ALLATLANTACONDOS.COM
Harry Norman, REALTORS® - Atlanta, GA
Associate Broker

Thank you Debe Maxwell, CRS 

Oct 05, 2017 04:36 AM
Rainmaker
313,931
Peter Mohylsky
BETTER HOMES AND GARDENS REAL ESTATE - Destin, FL
Your Bucket List Broker in Destin, Fl..

This does not sound right.  Who was the loan agency?  Who is responsible for the closing ?

Oct 05, 2017 03:35 AM
Rainmaker
2,254,796
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker

Lender has a problem and without previous disclosure cannot change fees charged as disclosed with initial application. Buyer needs an attorney and seller should already have his money per your facts!

Oct 04, 2017 11:52 PM
Rainmaker
1,357,022
Sybil Campbell
Long and Foster REALTORS® 5234 Monticello Ave Williamsburg, Virginia - Williamsburg, VA
REALTOR® ABR, SFR, SRES Williamsburg, Virginia

I agree with Dave Halpern on this one.

Oct 04, 2017 05:24 PM
Rainmaker
193,825
Chuck Mixon
The Keyes Company - Cutler Bay, FL
Cutler Bay Specialist, GRI, CDPE, BPOR

Question what does the Note your client signed say?  Just curious  if she signed a note  then that is her rate I would think. For sure a legal question.

Oct 04, 2017 04:42 PM
Rainmaker
3,596,393
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

Legal question.

Oct 04, 2017 04:36 PM
Rainmaker
261,214
Melissa Jackson
United Country Real Estate FW - Fort Worth, TX
REALTOR® Matching Buyers & Sellers

Sounds like someone didn't do their job. I don't see how the rate could change after the CD was delievered.  If this happened I'm sure there is a case that a judge would be hearing.

Oct 07, 2017 09:37 PM
Rainmaker
1,344,670
Sandy Padula and Norm Padula, JD, GRI NMLS#1483386
Realty One Group - Carlsbad, CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Debe Maxwell, CRS got this one.

Oct 06, 2017 08:24 AM
Rainmaker
3,095,122
Dorie Dillard
Coldwell Banker United Realtors® ~ 512.346.1799 - Austin, TX
Serving Buyers & Sellers in NW Austin Real Estate

I'm wth Debe Maxwell, CRS on this one!!

Oct 05, 2017 09:45 PM
Rainmaker
329,073
Greg Large
ERA Real Solutions - Grove City, OH
A Tradition of Trust

Do not see a circumstance where your scenario could actually take place here, Lender does not record the deed here. From your description, the transaction was completed with the wire transfer and signatures.

Oct 05, 2017 03:40 PM
Rainer
152,192
Caroline Gerardo
Eagle Home Mortgage, LENNAR HOMES Home Loans - Newport Beach, CA
C. G. Barbeau the Loan Lady

Sounds like transaction did not close and buyer should not have moved in.  "changed rate last minute" either the rate lock expired, or something buyer gave upfront changed such as loan to value, property not single family is PUD, FICO went down or some change of circumstance caused by Buyer. When rate changed lender had to resend a closing disclosure and buyer was forced to wait the holding period. Why did listing agent or buyer's agent let buyer believe the deal recorded? Legal isn't best bet here- is arbitration in contract? Every day the buyer is in house without closed loan costs everyone. Underwriters DO NOT talk to brokers facts are not straight

Oct 05, 2017 12:08 PM
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Joe Pryor
The Virtual Real Estate Team - Oklahoma City, OK
REALTOR® - Oklahoma Investment Properties

In 27 years that has never happened to me. 

Oct 05, 2017 11:50 AM
Rainmaker
285,784
Teri Pacitto
Compass - Westlake Village, CA
Real Estate, Your Style...Your Home...My Specialty

Why in the world would a buyer be given keys and allowed to move in to a property that they do not own?   I had to look where you are located and not sure of your rules there, but in CA the buyer would not receive access to the home until there is Confirmation of Recording.  From your post there was no recording and therefore appears that the buyer did not own what they moved into.  Shame on whoever allowed that to happen.  

Oct 05, 2017 10:25 AM
Rainmaker
424,074
Hella M. Rothwell, Broker/Realtor®
Carmel by the Sea, CA
Rothwell Realty Inc. CA#01968433 Carmel-by-the-Sea

In California at least, money is not paid out from escrow to anyone until deed is recorded so no one is moving anywhere. There are other safeguards. The buyers agent isn't even part of the loan process. Yep, this sounds bogus to me.

Oct 05, 2017 09:27 AM
Rainmaker
905,097
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
www.HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

I'm with Debe Maxwell, CRS on this one.  New laws should prevent last minute lender shenanigans like this.  I'd say hire a lawyer.

Oct 05, 2017 08:59 AM
Rainmaker
2,370,102
Kathleen Daniels
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
San Jose Homes for Sale - Probate Broker

I am with Debe Maxwell, CRS - consult with an attorney ... my money is on the lender eats it. 

Oct 05, 2017 08:35 AM
Rainmaker
69,908
Ben DeHaven
Haven Realty & Investments - Winter Haven, FL
Proudly serving Winter Haven & Lakeland, Florida

This sounds like something fishy going on, or a communication breakdown somewhere. Buyer needs to get a lawyer. 

Oct 05, 2017 08:19 AM
Rainmaker
855,418
Corinne Guest, Managing Broker
Barrington Realty Company - Barrington, IL
The Choice of Professionals

Name that lender so we all know! But it's lenders problem. It's why we all use attorneys, this cannot and should not happen. The deed has transfered ownership.

Oct 05, 2017 07:42 AM
Rainmaker
678,130
Carol Williams
U.S.: I specialize in helping agents who have been in the business 2 years or less create a thriving business. - Wenatchee, WA
"Customized Mentoring & Marketing Services"

This is an unlikely scenario.  If this did, in fact, happen it is time for legal counsel... and you (as an agent) would have NO involvement in its resolution.  

Oct 05, 2017 07:37 AM
Rainmaker
606,057
Olga Simoncelli
Veritas Prime, LLC dba Veritas Prime Real Estate - New Fairfield, CT
CONSULTANT, Real Estate Services & Risk Management

Sounds fishy; there should've been appropriate disclosure before closing.

Oct 05, 2017 07:03 AM
Rainmaker
397,218
Nathan Gesner
American West Realty & Management - Cody, WY
Broker / Property Manager

The settlement statement must be presented 72 hours prior to closing. I think the buyer has a solid case.

Oct 05, 2017 06:17 AM
Rainmaker
3,775,729
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

It may very well be the closing agent who is responsible for this one.

Oct 05, 2017 06:13 AM
Rainmaker
918,506
Susan Haughton
Long and Foster REALTORS (703) 470-4545 - Alexandria, VA
Susan & Mindy Team...Honesty. Integrity. Results.

Debe Maxwell, CRS has the right answer - this actually should not be happening with the 3 day closing disclosure requirement.  If the lender wants more money, they need to pony up.  

Oct 05, 2017 06:01 AM
Rainmaker
2,164,383
Richard Weeks
Dallas, TX
REALTOR®, Broker

Did your instructor make up the wacky scenario?  Don't see this happening in the real world.

Oct 05, 2017 05:43 AM
Rainmaker
1,263,957
Lyn Sims
RE/MAX Suburban - Schaumburg, IL
Schaumburg IL Area Real Estate

There is no way this could happen with TRID & all the other guidelines. In 'the old days' the LO's company would eat any problems & possibly not be able to sell the loan.

Oct 05, 2017 05:37 AM
Rainmaker
2,334,282
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of Manchester NH's Leading Agents

WIth the 3 day federal mandated review period, the buyer would see the HUD and know before closing day. The lender would have violated federal law. As a buyer i review the HUD with my buyer when we receive it so no surprises on closing day

Oct 05, 2017 05:30 AM
Rainer
219,075
Ken Jones, ASA, SCGREA
Jones Appraisal Associates - Newark, NJ

Heather Zollinger Sounds like this is a STUPID BUYER, as well as a negligent real estate agent.

Any buyer who signs ANYTHING without READING THE ENTIRETY of that document deserves what they get.

Oct 05, 2017 05:12 AM
Rainmaker
504,003
Doug Dawes
Keller Williams Realty - Topsfield, MA - Georgetown, MA
Your Personal Realtor®

Certainly, a lawyer is called for in this situation. Odd though as the Federal Guidelines are very clear about the closing document being provided 3 days prior

Oct 05, 2017 04:21 AM
Rainmaker
2,149,283
James Dray
Fathom Realty AR LLC - Bentonville, AR
Exceptional Agents, Outstanding Results

It's on the lender.  Like the others indicated an attorney is in order

Oct 05, 2017 02:58 AM
Rainmaker
3,215,140
William Feela
WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

With the Federal guidlines as they are the HUD should have been updated and approved by the buyer

Oct 04, 2017 07:30 PM
Rainmaker
2,251,942
Will Hamm
Hamm Homes - Aurora, CO
"Where There's a Will, There's a Way!"

How did that happen,  that why we have the new rules

 

Oct 09, 2017 04:34 PM
Rainmaker
3,084,299
Joan Cox
Metro Brokers - House to Home, Inc. - Denver Real Estate - 720-231-6373 - Denver, CO
Denver Real Estate - Selling One Home at a Time

That situation won't happen with the new TRID rules, no changes day of closing.

Oct 08, 2017 07:46 PM
Rainmaker
1,141,271
Inna Ivchenko
Barcode Properties - Encino, CA
Realtor® • Green • GRI • HAFA • PSC Los Angeles CA

I would be suggesting my principal against allowing the buyer to receive keys and move in before closing confirmed exactly for such reasons. 

Oct 06, 2017 11:11 AM
Ambassador
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Praful Thakkar
eXp Realty - Andover, MA
Andover, MA: Andover Luxury Homes For Sale

Heather Zollinger - should not have happened at all - buyers are supposed to review the docs 3 days prior to closing.

Oct 05, 2017 09:19 PM
Rainmaker
750,674
Sam Shueh
(408) 425-1601 - San Jose, CA
mba, cdpe, reopro, pe

Heather Zollinger 

It used to be realtors do loans(no license was required) and sale. They ofen get blamed. 

It will not be that much but I will not want to get involved and get blamed. 

Oct 05, 2017 07:43 PM
Rainmaker
562,828
Annette Lawrence , Palm Harbor, FL 727-420-4041
ReMax Realtec Group - Palm Harbor, FL
Making FLORIDA Real Estate EZ

First, if the story is true, the name of all parties involved on the financial side should be listed. The assurance of expose is what keeps people and companies behaving well. However, TOO BIG TO FAIL is to big govern.

Absence of identify suggests the story is not true or no longer true.

The buyers real estate agent will be able to bring a qualified attorney into the picture. IF it's Wells Fargo or Chase, a legal office with deeper pockets may be needed.

Oct 05, 2017 11:32 AM
Rainmaker
2,153,849
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

If its a substantiated expense as in bonafide, the one charged is responsible. Three things: Everything in Real Estate is negotiable & Calculate the costs to collect or dispute. Finally, spreading the blame (?) can ease it a bit for all

Oct 05, 2017 06:34 AM
Rainmaker
1,253,022
Michael Setunsky
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA

Heather Zollinger If all documents were signed and the property closed, the lender is probably responsible. The lender has nothing to do with recording the deed. Time to consult a real estate attorney.

Oct 05, 2017 06:25 AM